My podcasts

Wonder Women 010 – Anne of All Trades
Wonder Women 010 – Anne of All Trades Anne planted her first seed and used her first tool a little over a year ago. Now she is on a mission to inspire and empower others to learn things that make
Wonder Women 009 – Erin of Maker Gray
Wonder Women 009 – Erin of Maker Gray Erin is a DIY furniture maker and home remodeler sharing video tutorials on YouTube. From getting a degree in art, to making music, to becoming a professional photographer, to discovering woodwork, Erin
Wonder Women 008 – EJ of Hurricane Woodwork
Wonder Women 008 – EJ of Hurricane Woodwork EJ is a woodworker located in Philadelphia. Their main objective is to provide their clients with full service woodwork design using ethically and sustainably sourced woods. They work predominantly with reclaimed wood.
Wonder Women 007 – Eleanor Dewey
Wonder Women 007 – Eleanor Dewey Eleanor Dewey lives with her spouse and shop cat Alfonso in the Denver, CO area. She is a talented wood turner who is close to completing her degree in fine furniture and turning. She
Wonder Women 006 – Alexis
Wonder Women 006 – Alexis Alexis is a craftsperson and woodworker that is currently running a local maker space, Protohaven, in the Pittsburgh area. Alexis has always been creative and went to college for industrial design. After college she had
Wonder Women 005 – Violin Maker Emma Hardy
Wonder Women 005 – Violin Maker Emma Hardy Prior to beginning training as a violin maker in 2017 at Merton College (London), Emma worked as a book cover designer and typesetter where she learned the joy of small details which
Wonder Women 004 – Kate Duncan
It was as a pre-teen, in Junior High School that Kate Duncan was introduced to woodworking. Little did she know, that first shop class would be the beginning of an entire career in furniture making and design. Since her days
Wonder Women 003 – Marylou with Made by Marylou
Wonder Women 003 – Marylou with Made by Marylou Marylou is a designer currently based in Raleigh, NC. She has always had a love for art and design, regardless of the medium. She will never claim to be an expert
Wonder Women 002 – Jessie Uyeda of iJessup
Wonder Women 002 – Jessie Uyeda of iJessup So one day, Jessie’s big brother Ben called her up, said hey, you aren’t really doing anything with your life, so come work for me! And that is how Jessie left her
Wonder Women 001 – Daej of Daej Designs
Wonder Women 001 – Daej of Daej Designs Based in Toronto, founder and principle designer, Daej Hamilton started this company at 22 years old. Luxuriating in her 11th year of woodworking, her pieces reflect the timeless, mid-century, modern aesthetic. Using

Episode 98 – Angela creator of Move Over Bob
Episode 98 – Angela creator of Move Over Bob Angela is a wife, mom, former barber, and owner of her own design and build business. Angela has really always had a passion about building up trade work and working in
Episode 97 – Octavia of The Timber Mom
Episode 97 – Octavia of The Timber Mom Octavia is a wife, Mom of two, and DIY woodworker. Octavia is fairly new to woodworking and DIY. She started teaching herself as a way to make things for her home and
Episode 96 – Emilee of Mama Needs a Project
Episode 96 – Emilee of Mama Needs a Project Emilee is a military wife, mom of two, and DIY maker. Emilee started her making journey on a military base in California with her husband. She had wanted to find something
Episode 95 – Chloe of Wood Couture LA
Episode 95 – Chloe of Wood Couture LA Chloe is a mother of two and woodworker originally from France and now in the LA area. She came to the US in order to learn English and started out building sets
Episode 94 – Tanda @TandaMadison
Episode 94 – Tanda @TandaMadison Tanda is an entrepreneur, maker and founder of Vanguard Tech. As she says, happiness is a shop full of tools and a mind full of ideas. She is fascinated with making and micro-manufacturing. As a
Episode 93 – Jennifer with I Wear Many Hats
Episode 93 – Jennifer with I Wear Many Hats Jennifer is a wife, mom of two, emergency room RN, home DIYer and woodworker. Jennifer’s introduction to woodworking came from a need to have furniture for her home on a budget.
Episode 92 – Michelle of Aqua – n – Gold
Episode 92 – Michelle of Aqua – n – Gold Michelle is a wife, mom, engineer and maker. She has always had a creative side. At first this creative side came out as a cake decorator, then paper crafts, and
Episode 91 – Katie Thompson of Women of Woodworking
Episode 91 – Katie Thompson of Women of Woodworking Katie Thompson is an independent artist, author, creative consultant and speaker based outside of Charleston, SC. She is a disabled mother of two, and wife. She lives and works out of
Episode 90 – Whitney of That Woodworking Girl
Episode 90 – Whitney of That Woodworking Girl Whitney is a wife, mom of 2, woodworker and DIYer. Whitney has always enjoyed being creative, but it was when her and her husband had their first place that she got into
Episode 89 – Lizzy, The House of Timber Rerun
Episode 89 – Lizzy, The House of Timber Rerun Rerun: You may know Lizzy from her amazing wood sign and logo work. Well she recently become a Mom to a beautiful baby girl, Crew. Lizzy found making through a need
Episode 88 – Julia with DIY Dougherty
Episode 88 – Julia with DIY Dougherty Julia is a wife, stay at home Mom of two, and woodworker. She really got her first taste of making in high school when she had the chance to help build sets for
Episode 87 – Sil of Sil Ralphs Designs
Episode 87 – Sil of Sil Ralphs Designs Sil is a wife, mom, and woodworker. She is a self proclaimed tomboy from a young age, always wanting to do what the guys were doing. She is originally from Brazil, only
Episode 86 – Jade with Donaghe Dwelling
Jade is a wife, stay at home mom of 3, and DIY home blogger. She has a deep desire to know how to do things and fix things around her home. This is what got her started in DIY home
Episode 85 – Kalila of Live Love House
Kalila is a wife, mom of 3 and DIY home renovator. At first Kalila had no interest in helping to renovate her home. Eventually though she decided to give it a try and got hooked. Now, she tackles big projects
Episode 84 – Nicole with Simply Aligned Home
Nicole is a wife, mom, engineer, and DIY room renovator. Her interest in how things work together lead her to her career as a mechanical engineer. After purchasing a house that was mid- renovation, her DIY side kicked into gear.
Episode 83 – Christy of Oakhill Millworks
Christy is a wife, Mom, and laser sign maker extraordinaire. That is a bit of a mouthful! Christy was a RN who went to stay at home Mom when her two kids were born. She wanted to find something just
Episode 82 – Bonnie the Tool Mom
Bonnie is a Mom of two, carpenter and cabinet maker by trade, and really a jane of all trades. Even as a kid Bonnie loved to make things and tinker and that never really stopped. She has worked as a
Episode 81 – Panel with Char, Alma, and Jessie, Diversity in the Maker Community
This week’s episode is with a panel of amazing Moms: Char (Wooden Maven), Alma (Pink Soul Studios), and Jessie (Built by Jessie). Each of these awesome women have had their own experiences on being women of color in the maker
Episode 80 – Lindsay of Lindsay Creative
Lindsay is a wife, mom, maker and artist. She also used to be an engineer for Nasa in the space program. She has always done and been interested in art since she was a child, probably fueled by her maker
Episode 79 – Shankevia of Sawdust & Fabric
Shankevia is a wife, mom of 3, and furniture maker. She taught herself how to woodwork while homeschooling her oldest and trying to find something to direct their energy to. Though her kids were not that interested, she definitely caught
Episode 78 – Tami The Girly Shop Teacher
Tami is a mom of 3 boys and a master maker teaching shop classes to kids and speaking to shop teachers across the country. Basically a maker since she was 7 and working through many different careers as a young
Episode 77 – Cara with Never Skip Brunch
Cara is a wife, mom, and DIY blogger and content creator. After college Cara worked in the oil and gas industry and when she found out she was pregnant, she used that as a perfect time to leave the corporate
Episode 76 – Ceramic Artist Heidi McKay
Heidi is a spouse, mom of two, professor, ceramic artist and jewelry artist. Heidi found a love for ceramics and pottery at a young age and that has really just stayed with her. Her family was really creative when she
Episode 75 – Michelle with a Piece of Meesh
Michelle is a wife, mom, full-time nurse practitioner and beginner woodworker. Michelle gave woodworking a try when she needed something for her own home and caught the maker bug. She now enjoys doing pieces both for her own home as
Episode 74 – Kristen with In Her Garage
Kristen is a wife, mom of 2 girls, a registered nurse, and a woodworker. Kristen started her woodworking career when she wanted certain pieces of furniture for her home, but could not find them for a reasonable price. Eventually she
Episode 73 – Lilly of The Creative Heart Studio
Lilly is a wife, mom of two, and party prop maker extraordinaire. Lilly has been creative since she was a kid and she even got to attend a special high school that was for people who enjoyed making and creating
Episode 72 – Christy with Twisted Twine Woodworking
Christy is a full time CPA and Mom of two grown girls. Now she starts off this episode with a bang, talking about how much she actually LOVES accounting. After her oldest daughter went off to college and before her
Episode 71 – Katie Freeman with Freeman Furnishings/Maker Mom Podcast
So after lots of messages and asking, it is I, your host, Katie Freeman, back with a second interview on more info on myself. Not really sure why y’all wanted more of my back story, since I’m pretty sure I
Episode 70 – Halley with Ice + Dust Pottery
Halley is wife, mom of a spirited 5 year old boy, full time graphic designer, and ceramic artist. Halley grew up being very creative, even went to art school right out of high school. Once graduating college she dove into
Episode 69 – Kourtni Leigh with House on Longwood Lane
Kourtni is a wife, mom of two and DIY/Home renovation blogger. Kourtni has only been doing DIY and home renovation projects for just a few short years. It really all started with the birth of her oldest and her decision
Episode 68 – Charlee with Build and Create Home
Charlee is a wife, mom of 4, and maker/DIYer that lives in Hawaii. She started her journey down the road of DIY when her and her husband were in a house that needed some serious renovating. She has grown from
Episode 67 – Britt with Tangled Walnut
Britt is a wife, mom of two, is in the air national guard, and she makes wooden wall art pieces. She gets great inspiration from the mountains and the northern lights. Britt started just by creating a few pieces of
Episode 66 – Kaylee with This Mother Flipping House and Kaylee Did it DIY
Kaylee is a partner, mom of two, house flipper and DIY project maker extraordinaire. Kaylee started out doing DIY projects at home and woodworking at a young age and it has stuck with her ever since. When her oldest was
Episode 65 – Jennifer or Miss Dewalt
Jennifer is a Mom of two, flag maker, and better known as Miss Dewalt. Jennifer makes beautiful flags for police officers, fire fighters, people in the armed forces or anyone who enjoys flags really. She had to learn how to
Episode 64 – Deserae with Harvester Woodworks
Deserae is a wife, Mom of two, and sports masseuse as well as woodworker. Deserae was introduced to woodworking by her father at a young age. She learned the value of being able to make something you needed or wanted
Episode 63 – Katy with Karter Designs
Katy is a wife, mom to two boys, and fricken hilarious maker of signs and glass ware. Katy started Karter Designs about four years ago. It started as a way to pay for her son’s preschool and has just taken
Episode 61 – Jaime Derringer of Design Milk and Clever Podcast
Jaime is a wife, mom, artist, editor of Design Milk, and co-host/co-producer of Clever Podcast. Phew, that is a lot! Jaime started both Design Milk and doing artwork in 2006. For Design Milk she shares design trends and designers making
Episode 60 – Lizzy with THE House of Timber
You may know Lizzy from her amazing wood sign and logo work. Well she recently become a Mom to a beautiful baby girl, Crew. Lizzy found making through a need to find an escape from a rather tough situation. She
Episode 59 – Kendra with Dam Rad Designs
Kendra is a wife and mom of identical twin boys. After university she started a career in the construction industry. Through hard work she found herself working in the office. Then when her boys were born she transitioned into a
Episode 58 – Katie the Handy Mom
Katie is a wife and Mom of 1. She got her education in carpentry and was a trim carpenter for years until she decided to be a stay at home Mom with the birth of her daughter almost two years
Episode 57 – Cynthia with Lucky Buttercup and Daughters
Cynthia has quite the journey to becoming a maker. She was introduced to woodwork and making as a young child by her father. However, she did not take it up as a hobby until about 3 years ago. Cynthia is
Episode 56 – Making a Seat at the Table
Today’s episode is a bit different. I have a chat with Laura Mays of episode 55 and Deirdre Visser about the book they are writing together and the show they curated together called Making a Seat at the Table that
Episode 55 – Laura Mays
Laura is a mother, woodworker, teacher, curator, and author. She has a degree in architecture, but really has a drive to be much more hands on. Through a series of events she found herself in woodworking school, getting a certificate
Episode 54 – Amanda with Chainsawchiccarving
Amanda is a wife and Mom of 4. She also happens to be a chainsaw carver in Alaska. What started as a search for a way to make an income and work while having the flexibility to have a much
Episode 53 – Tammy with Wood and Cotton Creations
Tammy is a wife and mom of two teenage boys. She has been a maker or creative person from a young age starting with embroidery. Now she still does embroidery in addition to quilting, hand carving spoons and making furniture
Episode 52 – Best of Maker Mom Year 1
This episode contains clips of four different episodes from the first year. It starts with Timisha of Toolbox Divas, then Brandy of Studio Aube, then Alma of Pink Soul Studios, and last but not least Brandi of Eternal Harvest Décor.
Episode 51 – Char with the Wooden Maven
Originally ran as episode 19 on February 14, 2019 Char is a wife, Mom of 4, two of which are twins, and a natural born builder and woodworker. Char and her husband were both in the height of their careers
Episode 50 – Tamar with 3×3 Custom
Tamar is a Mom of 3 and woodworker, maker, DIYer, and content creator. Though she claims she wasn’t creative as a kid, even though she loved and played music, she has certainly made up for it as an adult. She
Episode 49 – Amy with Bison Valley Carving
Amy is a wife, mom of 4, and spoon carver. Amy has only been carving spoons for 2 years, but she has already made her mark in the space by creating her infamous sauce spoon. She also loves to cook,
Episode 48 – Sarah with Tool Girls Garage
Sarah, is a wife and Mom of two. Currently the primary focus of the content she produces are tool reviews, but she is also an avid builder and DIYer. As she juggles the busy life of marriage with two kids,
Episode 47 – Elisha with Pneumatic Addict
Elisha is a wife, mom of identical twin boys, furniture maker and content creator. From her start as a hairstylist to making her first projects out of necessity of things for her home to now content creator extraordinaire, Elisha seems
Episode 46 – Lia with Parker Place
Lia is a wife, mom of two with one on the way, former mascot and now woodworker. While staying at home with her kids she manages to squeeze in commissioned builds for her local community. With a third on the
Episode 45 – Cecilia with @theshop_wooddesigns
Cecilia is a wife, mom to triplets (that’s right, I said triplets), woodworker, and power carver. Before getting into woodworking and carving she was a graphic designer. So, it’s fair to say that Cecilia is a creative person to her
Episode 44 – Ashley with Build Like a Chick
Ashley is a single Mom of twin boys and running her own furniture business in Utah. Right from the start Ashley gave it a go at turning her making into a business by starting with painting furniture first. She no
Episode 43 – Katie with The Vinyl Peach
Katie is a wife, boy Mom, and maker of custom onesies, cozies, and tumblers. She is really killing it at her business, so much so, it’s hard to believe she has only been in business since May of this year!
Episode 42 – Chiara with Chiara DIY What
Chiara is a wife, mom of a 16 month old, full time worker, ex bounty hunter, AND crafter and DIYer of all things for the home. Chiara really shines when it comes to taking items found at the Dollar Tree
Episode 41 – Katie with @handmadekatie
Katie is a wife, Mom of twin boys, and maker, carpenter, aspiring plumber. Currently she is remodeling her kitchen which she has turned into a family affair. Though she has done quite a bit of making with different materials, Katie
Episode 40 – Celena Camp with Down to Earth Woodworks
Celena is a single Mom, works a full time job in the gun industry, and is running her own woodworking business. She is a self proclaimed tinkerer from a young age. She got into woodworking because she needed a piece
Episode 39 – Kate with @see.k8.saw
Kate is a wife, mom to a 3.5 year old, English teacher (dreaded by some, aka me), and wood worker. Kate and really her whole family had an interest in making, or as Kate calls it “doing” when she was
Episode 38 – Emily with Rooted Leather
Emily is a wife, stay at home mom to 3 boys, and leather bag maker extraordinaire. The idea for the leather bag started from wanting to preserve precious memories of her little ones in the form of using a special
Episode 37 – Flashback with Ellen from Little Bare Furniture
This episode is a flashback to episode 2 – I have the great pleasure of speaking with Ellen Smith of Little Bare Furniture in Ohio. If you aren’t following her journey, you need to be! She has a degree in sculpture,
Episode 36 – Timisha with Toolbox Divas
Timisha is a wife, mom to be, and DIY blogger. Timisha has been making and building since she was a kid. It is her passion. So much so, that she wants to share that passion with others. She shares her
Episode 35 – Katie with Addicted 2 DIY
Katie is a wife, mom of 2 boys, and DIY blogger. She started making at first out of necessity. Being in a one income home, they simply could not afford to buy the furniture and home décor they wanted, so
Episode 34 – Jessie with Built by Jessie
Jessie is a wife, Mom of 3, works a full-time job, and fits making and DIY in where she can. She loves being able to completely transform a space all on her own. Though she didn’t really start making or
Episode 33 – Cortnie with White Rabbit
Cortnie is a wife, mom of two, screen printer, and retail shop owner in Iowa City. Making the decision to go into art after three years of studying biology at the University of Iowa seems to be absolutely the right
Episode 32 – Amy with Her Tool Belt
Amy is a wife, mom of 3, part-time mechanical engineer, woodworker, and part-time blogger. Phew! That made me tired just writing it! Amy has been working with her hands from the time she was small, working on her family farm.
Episode 31 – Carson with @itotallyhaveaworkshop
Carson is a wife, Mom of 3, and beginner woodworking. She is not however a beginner maker. She has enjoyed making in several different areas, including quilting. Her and her husband and oldest child moved just a week before her
Episode 30 – Sarah and Rachel with Sticks, Inc.
Sarah started Sticks almost by accident. She is a degreed artist who really enjoys creating abstract paintings. A friend of hers aske her to create a nativity set, and basically the rest is history. As a Mom of 3 young
Episode 29 – Alma with Pink Soul Studios
Alma is a wife, stay at home boy Mom, and amazing woodworker. She has always had an interest in art and creativity that eventually became focused on woodworking. She uses those woodworking skills and creativity to create custom mallets, push
Episode 28 – Jen Woodhouse
Jen is an Army wife and homeschooling mother of two. She and her family call Nashville, Tennessee home, but are currently stationed at Fort Hood, Texas. The House of Wood is Jen’s creative outlet for all things DIY and design, a place
Episode 27 – Jess Crow with Crow Creek Designs
Jess is a Mom of 3 and artist extraordinaire. She started her maker journey as a child of humble beginnings who learned very early that if you want something, we have to make it. She has carried that spirit with
Episode 26 – Brittany with Pretty Handy Girl
Brittany, wife, mom, and demolition expert?? She is a DIY blogger, home renovator and house flipper. Brittany got her start working with tools as a young child when her parents renovated their house on their own. So I guess you
Episode 25 – Dyan Thomas with Thomas Ten Projects
Dyan is a Wife, Mom of 8, and woodworker. As if it isn’t extraordinary enough that she is a Mom of 8 and how that came to be, she has also been woodworking since early childhood thanks to her Dad.
Episode 24 – Charlee with Build and Create Home
Charlee is a wife, mom of 4, and maker/DIYer that lives in Hawaii. She started her journey down the road of DIY when her and her husband were in a house that needed some serious renovating. She has grown from
Episode 23 – Jenny with Sacred Cinder
Jenny is a Wife, Mom of two boys, and a maker. Currently she is a stay-at-home Mom, but with her youngest starting Kindergarten in the fall she is looking forward of entering the workforce again. She mainly makes signs and
Episode 22 – Alicia Jackson
Alicia Jackson is a wife, mom, full time engineer, and woodworker and builder. Alicia grew up exposed to building and construction, but it wasn’t until a need for a project at home did she venture into the world of woodworking
Episode 21 – Britt with Overalls & Powersaws
Britt is a wife, Mom of 4 and natural born woodworker. She grew up with two parents who were rather crafty. Her Dad had his own shop. It wasn’t until she had a need for a large dinning room table
Episode 20 – Brad & Susan of Fix This Build That
Brad has been the face of Fix This Build That and the co-host of Made For Profit for a few years now. Toward the end of last year his wife, Susan, joined full time into Fix This Build That. During
Episode 19 – Char with Wooden Maven
Char is a wife, Mom of 4, two of which are twins, and a natural born builder and woodworker. Char and her husband were both in the height of their careers when they found out they were expecting twins. After
Episode 18 – Anika with Anika DIY Life
Anika is a wife, mother of two and DIY blogger living in Southern California. Anika has her doctorate in Electrical Engineering and was succeeding in that career when she started her woodworking journey. It all started with the need for
Episode 17 – Martina with Knotty By Nature (KBN) Designs
Martina is a woodworker and Mom of two teenage boys. Her and her wife run KNB Designs where they work with clients to create custom designed furniture. Martina has an array of skills from traditional woodworking methods to CNC. An
Episode 16 – Brandi with Eternal Harvest
Brandi is a Mom of three, homeschools her kiddos, and makes super awesome tables and other stuff out of wood. Brandi has had quite a journey from phycologist to stay at home Mom and maker. With her background as a
Episode 15 – McKenna with Neat & Navy Blue
McKenna is a Mom of two who started refinishing and painting furniture as a way to have something just for herself. As a stay at home Mom its very important to have something that is just for you. She started
Episode 14 – Tiffany with Staying Inside the Grey
Tiffany is a Mom of 1 and maker extraordinaire. She has done all sorts of making from crafting to stained glass and now woodworking and starting to dabble with welding. She finds that making helps to ground her in a
Episode 13 – Courtney with The Sweetest Little Life
Courtney is a Mom of 3, maker, entrepreneur, and author. She truly is doing ALL the things and totally rocking it! Courtney shares with us her journey from make up artist to maker to overnight Etsy success story! She also
Episode 12 – Ashley with Handmade with Ashley
Ashley is a Mom of two, a software engineer, a gaming enthusiast and yes, a maker. She enjoys woodworking along with 3D printing. Making allows her to have a hobby that gets her doing things physically and away from a
Episode 11 – Ashley with Shes the Carpenter
Meet Ashley, mom of 2 boys, and USMC spouse, and oh, runs her own custom woodworking business. It all started with the need for a patio table. She needed one, couldn’t find one that fit her taste, so hey, she
Episode 10 – Meghan with Sweet Aloha Designs
Meghan, maker, and Mom of three, really discovered the joy of making as a way to occupy herself after her oldest joined the military. Now she is busy managing her making business, working a day job, and the busy schedule
Episode 09 – A Talk with Tiff
Tiffany (Tiff) with Staying Inside the Grey and I talk about life as a Mom to littles, and the pressures of anxiety and depression that touch so many lives. We chat about how making helps us work through those difficult
Episode 08 – Michelle with Artisan Woods
Michelle is a Mom of 3 girls, two of which she home schools, and an artist and maker. She loves to flex her creativity muscles dabbling in woodworking, painting, and DIY. She also enjoys the therapeutic benefits behind making.
Episode 07 – Valerie from Old Soul Designs
In this episode I talk with Valerie of Old Souls Designs. A mom of 3 boys, military wife, and woodworker extraordinaire. You can often find this busy Mom working hard in the shop she built! That’s right, she built her
Episode 06 – Wendy with the Pursuit of HappyMess
Wendy Vollans is a Mom of two creative teenage girls and a maker. She does such great projects like small carvings and resin work. She is also well known as one of the most generous people within the maker community.
Episode 05 – Kay with Kay at Home
Kay is a maker working with wood and resin and she is also the mom of a young teenager. She has been running her own business, Kay at Home, for two years now. Before that she had another small business
Episode 04 – Brandy Aube of Studio Aube
Brandy Aube is an amazing maker, and the first non-woodworker for the show. She does stunning work with metal, and oh, she’s also a Mom and has a day job. Brandy talks about her childhood, growing up in a family
Episode 03 – Jaclyn Perez of The Painted Farm Clockery
Jaclyn started her making journey just two years ago. At the time she was a Mom of 2 just wanting to make a clock as a gift for her Mom. That’s all it took and she was hooked. Now she
Episode 02 – Ellen Smith with Little Bare Furniture
In Episode 02 I have the great pleasure of speaking with Ellen Smith of Little Bare Furniture in Ohio. If you aren’t following her journey, you need to be! She has a degree in sculpture, is a wife, mom of
Episode 01 – Introduction
In this very first episode of the Maker Mom Podcast, I bring you the story of me, your host, Katie Freeman. Things like how I got my start in making and how I juggle a part-time job, my own business,